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Are people with Asperger's Syndrome likely to be conspiracy theorists ? :: Asperger Technical

 

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 Post subject: Are people with Asperger's Syndrome likely to be conspiracy theorists ?
Post Number:#1  PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:54 pm 
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Joined: 13th July, 2009
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I believe that it is a fair assumption that most of us spent a lot of time on the Internet. Alone. And probably not on social networking sites either. I would like to propose the hypothesis that most technically-astute people with Asperger's Syndrome are highly likely to be conspiracy theorists. I used to be into conspiracy theories until I read the works of Shermer, Randi, Sagan, Dawkins, Dennett, etc. They cured me of this social malady. I was drawn to conspiracy theories because, frankly, my life was utter shit. Plagued with bad memories, loneliness and with no support structures in place (I came from a dysfunctional family and had no friends), I believe that it was inevitable that I would be drawn into some fantasy world. For some aspies, it may be fantasy media (novels, manga, the list goes on). For others, conspiracy theories and/or pseudoscience.

But what do you think ? Tell me.


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     Post subject: Re: Are people with Asperger's Syndrome likely to be conspiracy theorists ?
    Post Number:#2  PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:35 pm 
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    This is a very good question. I don't think it has anything to do with spending a lot of time on the internet because there are countless neurotypical people who spend vast amounts of time looking at all sorts of websites about weird and wonderful things. Most conspiracy theorists I have met are definitely neurotypical. I have also encountered several people with AS who do not subscribe to the more prominent conspiracy theories such as those relating to 9/11.

    It may well be the case that people with AS are more likely to be conspiracy theorists simply because they are more inclined to question things than NT people are - or more precisely, question things accepted as the norm or the official viewpoint held by society and propagated via the media and education system, or simply following the behaviour of adults. It is generally human nature to want to assimilate into society and have a smooth ride in life. This leads to many people wishing to forfeit the truth for respect, and friendship, and promotions at work etc. One of my heroes is Galileo who defied the authorities in the name of the truth and suffered the consequences. Just about everybody nowadays accepts that Galileo was right and the establishment at the time was wrong, but how many people nowadays would have stood up for Galileo had they lived in his time? Not many would because of the risk of guilt by association and possible repercussions from both the establishment and the (largely ignorant) masses who prefer to go along with the flow rather than seek the truth. The same situation now applies to conspiracy theories which you aptly term a social malady.

    I myself refuse to believe the official storyline about 9/11 and I am convinced that the US government is behind it in one way or another with the aims of changing popular opinion and starting a another cold war. I don't subscribe to any particular view (such as it was an inside job carried out with explosives, or the US government knew of an impending terrorist attack but sat back and let it happen) because new information continues to surface. There are certainly plenty of questions the establishment is unwilling to answer about 9/11 even though facts and truths have (almost certainly) been exposed via other means by knowledgeable people - aviation, civil engineering, materials science etc.

    Another classic issue is Common Purpose. Almost everybody in the anti-EU movement, and plenty of ordinary people in the street, have now heard of Common Purpose. I have been involved with anti-EU movements for nearly 15 years, so I can assure you that nobody mentioned Common Purpose during the late 1990s. Neither did it appear on any websites or printed matter. Common Purpose was founded back in 1985 and it operated almost in secret for almost 20 years until it was finally exposed just a few years ago. This situation makes me wonder what else is out there hidden away from the general public and only known to a malevolent elite.


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       Post subject: Re: Are people with Asperger's Syndrome likely to be conspiracy theorists ?
      Post Number:#3  PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:35 am 
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      I personally think that 9/11 was the handiwork of Zionists. My views are influenced by my background rather than the result of having AS. They would be not be any different if I was neurotypical.

      The comment that Reseda makes about Common Purpose remaining hidden from the public and anti-EU movements for nearly 20 years is sterling stuff. If Common Purpose operated behind the scenes for so long then there are almost certainly other 'invisible' political movements yet to be revealed to the world.


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         Post subject: Re: Are people with Asperger's Syndrome likely to be conspiracy theorists ?
        Post Number:#4  PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:12 pm 
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        I'm not satisfied with the proposals that include (a) the Zionists did it (b) the "official storyline" is false.

        One can make claim "(a)" but must accept that it will be subject to criticism and demands for evidence. If these "Zionists" are that powerful and resourceful then surely they would have been able to achieve their goals, whatever they are, a hell of a long time ago.

        Regarding the phrase "official storyline": This would be based on the expert opinions of engineers, scientists and other suitably qualified investigators from all over the world based on publicly available evidence. The US government can make any claim they want but those claims will be viciously scrutinized by the world's smartest men and women everywhere. And, if those claims are found to be bullshit, it will be exposed very publicly and those officials named and shamed. However, those intellectuals are mostly satisfied with the official findings but still raise questions about the competence of several people in charge at the time.

        A real conspiracy to be concerned about (as are most scientists) is the rise of the religious right in America and the execution of the strategy laid out in the infamous Wedge Document - which was leaked a few years ago. This is something that the scientific community is genuinely concerned about - and is fighting everyday. I'd worry about that first before any other potential conspiracy. After all, these people managed to get stem cell research banned, holding back the progress of humanity for 10 years. Now, that's power !


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           Post subject: Re: Are people with Asperger's Syndrome likely to be conspiracy theorists ?
          Post Number:#5  PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:59 pm 
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          chermoula wrote:
          If these "Zionists" are that powerful and resourceful then surely they would have been able to achieve their goals, whatever they are, a hell of a long time ago.


          I am no expert on Zionism but I am aware that as a movement it has existed since the late 19th century and operates using trickle effect. The number of Zionist elites who command the movement are far too few to achieve their objectives alone, so they play a persuasion game to shape the opinions of the general public to be sympathetic towards the Zionist cause - often without realising it or by masquerading Zionist objectives as populist policy, such as fighting terrorism. If popular opinion is generally supportive of a particular movement then it makes it much easier for it to accomplish its objectives than if popular opinion is critical or hostile towards that movement. A trickle effect combined with a cunning persuasion game is the only workable method for a movement with controversial or unpopular aims to achieve its objectives.

          An example of this is that one of the pillars of the Zionist movement is supporting the existence of the state of Israel, yet the majority of ordinary British people do not actually benefit from the existence of the state of Israel any more than the state of Bolivia or Equatorial Guinea. After all, how much stuff on sale in the shops does Israel produce that no other country produces with a similar price tag or quality? Not a lot really. If the Zionist movement manages to persuade the majority of ordinary British people to support the existence of Israel rather than Palestine then it is opening the pathway to achieve their objectives via the trickle effect.

          Quote:
          Regarding the phrase "official storyline":


          The official storyline is that 9/11 is the work of Islamic terrorists who hijacked aircraft and crashed them into the twin towers and the Pentagon in a surprise attack where the US government could do nothing in its power to prevent it from happening.

          Quote:
          This would be based on the expert opinions of engineers, scientists and other suitably qualified investigators from all over the world based on publicly available evidence. The US government can make any claim they want but those claims will be viciously scrutinized by the world's smartest men and women everywhere. And, if those claims are found to be bullshit, it will be exposed very publicly and those officials named and shamed.


          This is easier said than done because attempts have been made to make independent gathering of evidence difficult. One such example is that the steel framework from the twin towers was promptly exported to China with the clearing up operation heavily guarded in order to prevent private investigators from examining the wreckage or removing items for forensic testing. Even if new evidence is found then there are the hurdles of publicising it. Quality media sources and scientific journals are very reluctant to publish anything which may expose the US government as guilty or negligent.

          Quote:
          However, those intellectuals are mostly satisfied with the official findings but still raise questions about the competence of several people in charge at the time.


          Academics have been sacked for trying to expose corruption surrounding 9/11.


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             Post subject: Re: Are people with Asperger's Syndrome likely to be conspiracy theorists ?
            Post Number:#6  PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:51 pm 
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            Regarding the Zionists and their trickle effect: What you have described makes them sound like an ordinary lobby group. A notorious one (as stated by Richard Dawkins in "Root of all Evil") but not really any different from other lobby groups. So, we can conclude that they neither have the resources nor the skill to pull off something like 9/11 - and not get caught.

            Quote:
            One such example is that the steel framework from the twin towers was promptly exported to China with the clearing up operation heavily guarded in order to prevent private investigators from examining the wreckage or removing items for forensic testing.


            I'm sure that the details of the construction of the twin towers is well known to experts in the field of engineering. Of course, the more physical evidence one can get the better, but do they need it ?

            Quote:
            Even if new evidence is found then there are the hurdles of publicising it. Quality media sources and scientific journals are very reluctant to publish anything which may expose the US government as guilty or negligent.


            This is a bold claim and an unsubstantiated one too. The US government, under the Bush Administration, was exposed many times as being guilty and negligent in the matters regarding stem cell research, torture, Gitmo and the evidence for WMD's in Iraq. For a comparison let's look at the wiki for radiation experiments performed on humans (by the US government): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_radiation_experiments#References. The reference section includes scientific literature.

            There was also the case of a NASA-based researcher being censored by some young US government official over the matter of climate change. The US government emerged from that very red-faced.

            Two years ago, a graduate student at an american university wrote a webpage that allowed people to see who edited wikis more easily. The CIA was exposed. Nothing happened to that graduate student.

            It does not appear that your claim is correct. Find some good evidence and we'll talk again.

            Quote:
            Academics have been sacked for trying to expose corruption surrounding 9/11.


            Yes, I read about that. They were fired for reasons similar to those used to dismiss academics who teach intelligent design and creationism in a biology lecture at university. Anyway, their hypotheses were not accepted by the scientific community and were refuted. When it comes to the scientific community it is not too much of a sin to argue from popularity - especially when a consensus is reached by experts in the matter under discussion. Well, one wouldn't care if several thousand computer scientists reaching a consensus over heart surgery as it is not their area of expertise. Just as we don't care that 700 academics expressed their dissent from Darwinism (google "Project Steve").


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               Post subject: Re: Are people with Asperger's Syndrome likely to be conspiracy theorists ?
              Post Number:#7  PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:48 pm 
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              chermoula wrote:
              Regarding the Zionists and their trickle effect: What you have described makes them sound like an ordinary lobby group. A notorious one (as stated by Richard Dawkins in "Root of all Evil") but not really any different from other lobby groups.


              Certainly a powerful and aggressive lobby group. How many other organisations since 1900 have managed to create a new nation out of somebody else's territory, namely the Palestinians, and managed to safeguard this territory for over 50 years whilst being generally supported by most western governments? Name them!

              Don't confuse the creation of Israel with many of the successful secessionist and independence movements that have created new nations during the 20th century. The difference is that just about all of the new nations created by secessionist and independence movements are populated by indigenous people who lived there prior to the nation's independence, whereas Israel is largely populated by immigrants from all over the world.

              Quote:
              So, we can conclude that they neither have the resources nor the skill to pull off something like 9/11 - and not get caught.


              I do not possess sufficient knowledge to provide a definite answer to this.

              Quote:
              I'm sure that the details of the construction of the twin towers is well known to experts in the field of engineering. Of course, the more physical evidence one can get the better, but do they need it ?


              If designs were so trustworthy then there would be no need for forensics to investigate the wreckages from road traffic accidents and air crashes. No engineering is perfect which is why wreckages from road traffic accidents and air crashes are routinely examined by forensics to find the cause which may not be evident from the designs of the vehicles or aircraft, or could have been caused by poor maintenance or sabotage.

              Quote:
              This is a bold claim and an unsubstantiated one too.


              Have you ever tried publishing scientific papers in journals? I have had papers rejected from certain journals or have been demanded to make changes by their editors, not because of technical reasons, but because of reasons of a more political nature. In some cases the same article has been accepted by other journals from different publishers or different countries of ownership.

              Quote:
              Find some good evidence and we'll talk again.


              A retired medical doctor who lived close by did a lot of research into Gulf War Syndrome with former servicemen who had (or claimed to have) signs of the condition. I didn't know the doctor all that well but I met him a few times. His own findings as an independent researcher did not tally with the official findings by the UK government at the time. He was definitely convinced that Gulf War Syndrome was for real and the government was trying to deny it existed or that they were responsible for so many affected servicemen. The doctor tried to publish papers of his findings in several medical journals but the editors refused to accept them for what in most cases were political as opposed to scientific reasons. He was eventually forced to publish his papers on the internet. They were regularly wiped by a number of UK based web hosting companies with no good reasons given, but longer term success was achieved with a US based web hosting company.


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                 Post subject: Re: Are people with Asperger's Syndrome likely to be conspiracy theorists ?
                Post Number:#8  PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:42 pm 
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                Reseda, thank you for replying:

                Regarding Zionists and Israel : Your response is not quite related to the topic. Think about it. You mentioned the "trickle effect" and I responded by saying (more or less ) that the aforementioned strategy makes them no different to any other lobby group. Again, the religious right is far more dangerous because of their proven ability to hinder the progress of science, get laws passed in favour of their world view and the massive amount of money that they can accumulate without paying taxes. Their interference has set the world back by 10 years as estimated by some top scientists. Discussions about Israel itself are about as relevant as discussing the veracity of the Bible (in the context of the mentioning of the religious right).

                Regarding publishing in journals : No, I haven't but have you ever published anything in a respected journal ? Anyone can submit a paper to a prestigious journal. Only a few even make it to the reviewers. And even fewer get accepted for publication. Even fewer will pass the rigorous examination of thousands of their peers once they read the paper. Anyway, I only have your word that the editors rejected your paper for political reasons. Because I don't know your real name, it is not possible for me to verify your claims. You could post the emails from those journals (including full headers with identifying information blacked out). Sorry but I need good evidence. Try find a more famous and verified example from history. Start with the Dreyfus Affair and Emile Zola. There might be something there.

                Regarding forensics and engineering:: Good points. My questions still remains though but I will rephrase it better: is the video-graphic evidence as well as available physical evidence enough for the thousands of suitable engineers and scientists around the world to arrive at a scientifically acceptable conclusion ? Given the ability that we have today to perform high precision physical simulations and what we know today about engineering especially from previous disasters, was the twisted remains of the twin towers worth the close up examination ? Could atmosphere samples and samples from nearby buildings be enough ? I don't know but the scientific community seems to be satisfied with what was available to them.

                Regarding the doctor: Again, I only have your word to go on. You don't reveal this doctor's name so I can't check out your claim. Also, given how much controversial stuff there is on the internet, I find it surprising that hosting companies would yank his stuff off their servers. Again, this claim needs to be backed up with good evidence.

                Think about it: anyone can make the claims that you just did. It's just too easy. I used to make this mistake all the time.


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                   Post subject: Re: Are people with Asperger's Syndrome likely to be conspiracy theorists ?
                  Post Number:#9  PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:03 am 
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                  chermoula wrote:
                  Again, the religious right is far more dangerous


                  The religious right is an umbrella term used to refer to a diverse selection of outfits. These outfits are neither united in their aims or ideology and some are very hostile towards others. Which particular movements on the religious right have hindered the progress of which areas of science?

                  Quote:
                  Anyway, I only have your word that the editors rejected your paper for political reasons.


                  One particular article was about television detector vans in the UK. It was quite technical and contained details of how television detector vans worked along with a method of modifying a television to avoid detection. The article also included the results of experiments conducted by myself on radiation of the local oscillator signal from a number of televisions leading to a commentary on the ability of television detectors being able to detect a television manufactured after 1996 when a new European EMC directive came into force. Three respectable British electronics magazines refused to publish the article on the grounds of possible repercussions from the government because it had exposed stuff that is officially confidential (not sure now the Freedom of Information Act is in force) and that the bit about modifying a television to be undetectable could be seen by the police as inciting criminal behaviour, therefore bringing the magazine into disrepute. Some American electronics magazines were willing to publish the article as (they claim) it is 100% legal under US law but they imposed a number of terms and conditions that I considered unfavourable such as having to strip out much of the complex technical material or restricted my rights to publish the information elsewhere.

                  Quote:
                  I find it surprising that hosting companies would yank his stuff off their servers.


                  Obviously you weren't involved in the management of British web hosting companies during the 1990s. Anybody who had managed, or knew somebody who managed, a British web hosting company during the 1990s would know that the police considered them as publishers, and the creators of a websites as authors. Under British law a publisher of print material can be held responsible and prosecuted if the publications they offer contains material of an illegal nature. If a web hosting company received a strongly worded letter from the police, or a solicitor acting on their behalf, demanding that they deleted a particular website or potentially faced prosecution, then more often than not the management of the web hosting company would comply rather than challenge authority.

                  The majority of web hosting companies are businesses set out to make a profit. They are not civil rights activists. Therefore they would rather lose a few customers with controversial websites than risk losing their entire business with their managers facing a potential prison sentence.


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                     Post subject: Re: Are people with Asperger's Syndrome likely to be conspiracy theorists ?
                    Post Number:#10  PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:47 pm 
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                    Reseda wrote:
                    Certainly a powerful and aggressive lobby group. How many other organisations since 1900 have managed to create a new nation out of somebody else's territory, namely the Palestinians, and managed to safeguard this territory for over 50 years whilst being generally supported by most western governments? Name them!


                    President Obama has reaffirmed a 4-decade-old secret understanding that has allowed Israel to keep a nuclear arsenal without opening it to international inspections, three officials familiar with the understanding said. Washington Times

                    If somebody were to conclude that President Obama has been pressured into this move by the Zionists then does it make them a conspiracy theorist?

                    I found an interesting article about Zionist control of the internet.


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